tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN December 15, 2011 1:00am-2:00am EST
we have an obligation to make sure it remains true for the next generation and the generation after that as it was for all of us. >> tom brokaw, a pleasure, thank you very much. >> my pleasure, piers. >> that's all for us tonight. >> that's all for us tonight. "ac 360" starts now. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com we begin keeping them honest with the search for accountability the search for accountability in the beating of florida a & m band member bria hunter and the death of robert champion. his killing and her beating happened not even three weeks apart. the first incident should have been a warning sign. it could have been a warning sign apparently, it wasn't enough to prevent what happened next, what happened to robert champion. we hesitate to call it hazing. because it's not the kind of pranks minor drinking and paddling you'd associate with that word. it is students beating other students. something that is widely practiced. even though year after year young men and young women are bruised, battered and possibly in champion's case, beaten to death.
>> okay. is he awake? >> he wasn't responding. we thought he was breathing. he was making noises. but i don't even know if he's breathing now. >> okay. is he awake? do you know? >> his eyes are open. his eyes are open. he's not responding. >> okay. but is he breathing? >> i have no idea. i cannot tell you that. >> that was the 911 call november 19th, after a game as robert champion lay dying on the band bus. other members say he may have undergone a rite of passage crossing by c. one member who wants to stay anonymous says crossing bus c is walking backward through the bus getting beaten as you go. this is less than three weeks after a clarinet player, bria hunter, was beaten. after her beating was reported to campus police. after she ended up in the hospital with blood clots and cracked thigh bone. three fellow band members are charged with that beating. bria is leaving a & m and plans to sue the university. in a moment, you're going to see
what happened when we went searching for answers from the university president. you'll hear him claim there is a veil of secrecy when it comes to brutal hazing. as if no one could have known. keeping them honest, how secret can it be when there is one incident after another involving this band going back years? ten years ago a student was beaten so badly he had to be hospitalized for kidney failure. 13 years ago a band member named ivory lucky was beaten. in 2004, the university settled a lawsuit with lucky. weeks before robert champion's death, band member julian white suspended 26 members for alleged hazing. 26 members. sounds more like common knowledge than something shrouded in secrecy. if he was unaware of his record at his own institution he might have been tipped off by reporting on other incidents involving marching bands in other historically black colleges like this. last november frank deford of "real sports" profiled a freshman band member. at southern university. he was beaten by upper classmen.
then when he was an upper classmen, he did the same to others. >> we asked him to demonstrate a typical night of hazing for the freshmen who the upper classmen call crabs. let's imagine that we're having a crab here. how would it work? if it's your turn to haze him. >> he would stand around in the middle where this is. and people all get around him in a circle. you tell him to bend over in a crouch basically position. >> he's like that? and you're hitting him? >> yes, sir. >> right in there? >> yes, sir. so they just keep hitting fast. >> you're not easing up. that's hard. >> it's a competition thing. so the person before me hit him. when the next person comes and hit him harder. >> that's "real sports" frank deford's report. a full year before bria hunter's
beating and robert champion's death. we sent jason carroll down to tallahassee looking for answers and accountability. keeping them honest. take a look. >> reporter: james, that man in the car there, is florida a & m's president. >> hi, how are you? i'm jason carroll with cnn. >> hey, jason, how are you doing? >> reporter: i'm well. as university president, the buck, so to speak, stops with him. we reached out you to several times in the past. but not successful in terms of getting you to respond. despite numerous phone calls and e-mails, he did not respond to our questions about hazing. so we caught up with him on campus. do you believe, though, in any way, shape or form that university has done enough to stop what has happened at the school in the past? >> let me just say this, you know, our number one priority is the health, safety, and well-being of our students. and with this tragic situation that we have involving the death
of robert champion, our hearts just go out to his family. >> reporter: as you know before robert champion's death, you had another situation with another young woman here at the university. she was hazed, as a result, three young men have now been arrested. that was before his death. and so the question is, why wasn't something done before? >> we have policies, procedures, and every incident of hazing that we've had has gone through the investigatory process. >> reporter: isn't it clear the policies you have in place aren't working and that those policies need to be changed? >> one of the things that we have found with hazing is that there is a -- there's a veil of secrecy. this is a culture not just here at florida a & m university. it's on college and university campuses all across america.
>> reporter: have you made any headway into making some changes here at the university? things can you tell us? some tangible things? >> there have been people incarcerated as a result of hazing. so, i mean, there is a stiff law. there are legal consequences for anyone engaged in hazing. we have adopted policies, procedures. but what i think -- >> reporter: nothing seems to be working. >> the other thing is that, when you look at the number of cases that we have had on our campus and you look at cases on other campuses, there is not a rampant kind of behavior. >> reporter: do you believe you bear personally any responsibility for what has happened to any of these students here? >> personal responsibility? i have done everything in
accordance to the law here in the state of florida. >> reporter: about three hours after that interview we received this document from the florida department of law enforcement which says during the course of their investigation, they uncovered possible fraud and/or misconduct by employees here at the university. the document reads, "the department has initiated a separate criminal investigation to examine these matters." so to find out more about the new investigation, we wanted to talk to mr. ammons again. just wanted to follow up with you about that possible follow-up interview with mr. ammons. his spokeswoman said she would get back to us, she never did. shortly after that, an interview scheduled with the chairman of the university's board of trustees, solomon badger was canceled. students and band members we spoke to disagree on how the problem has been addressed and whether it can be solved. >> we definitely realize our faults and where we went wrong.
and we're just trying to -- it's a move forward from here and take steps necessary to move forward. >> yesterday my friend was telling me how he was hazed. but, you know, he was still telling me, it still goes on. no one's any more afraid than they were before. >> reporter: why do you that i is? the university says they're trying to do everything they can to change policy here. >> it's because of us. we have to make change. >> yeah. >> jason, fascinating interview. fascinating information about this new investigation. have you learned any more about it? >> reporter: well, yes. investigators are saying very little about this new investigation, anderson. a source close to the investigation tells me that this new one has to deal with financial fraud. basically what happens, while investigators were looking into the allegations of hazing here, they came up with new allegations about financial fraud. so what we have now are two separate investigations. they are unrelated. but still an unsettling development, obviously, for our university officials here. >> and what do we know about the
young men accused of beating this woman bria hunter weeks before robert champion died? >> reporter: that's an interesting part of this story. apparently, bria hunter and these three young men were part of a group called the red dogs. this is the best way to explain it. just before i went on the air with you, i got off the phone with a band member. he explained it this way. basically, what you have when you have this band, anderson, you have various sections within the band. and they form their own subgroups. they're own sort of subclubs. and crossing your section is basically the process where you're hazed and officially initiated into that particular section. now the red dogs, according to what i'm being told by one of these band members, was just a group of people who were from georgia and they banded together and formed their own group. so that's what we're hearing about this particular group that bria hunter belonged to called the red dogs. >> jason, appreciate all the great reporting you've been doing. thank you. jason carroll.
the marching band is suspended from performing since robert champion's death. as jason mentioned, both he and bria hunter are believed to have belonged to this subgroup in the band called the red dogs, the red dog order, which is made up of band members from georgia. there are other groups, each kind of enforcing its own brand of discipline, each kind of fraternity unto itself. let's talk about it more with professor ricky jones at the university of louisville and author of "black haze" and also joining us, cnn analyst roland martin. professor, a university like florida a & m. they say they have the no hazing policy, clearly, it's an open secret this is happening. how much does a school, do they know about what's going on? how much do they care about actually stopping it? >> i won't say how much they care about it. but let's cut to the chase. everybody at that school from the band director to the students to the administrators all the way to the president, they know that this is a practice that goes on in these
bands. it also goes on in black greek letter organizations which the bands are mimicking. they're very clear on that. when they say they don't know about it, they're either lying or they should be fired for negligence. this is going on throughout the south of hbcu. it's going on predominantly white universities clearly the policies do not work. you are having people injured around the country. you're having people killed. and so what the bands, what other organizations, are really saying to these schools and administrators is this the way we do things. this is the way we always done things. and this is the way we're going to continue to do things. and so as an administrator or elected official in a state that's concerned about this, the question is what are you going to do with these organizations once you that i into account? >> so ronald, what can be done? is this something that is just existed through, you know, through the years at these schools? is it always going to exist? >> well, first of all, with all due respect to the professor, i think you have to broaden this
conversation and goes beyond hbcus, it goes beyond black greek letter fraternities and sororities. i'm a graduate of texas a and m university. two members were charged for hazing. in 1984 a corps cadet died going through exercises. what you have here. you have historically white fraternities and sororities and hazing as well. hazing is about culture. it is about institution where you largely have young folks who are in control of the institutions and so they're doing what they need to do. you have two things going on. you have also alumni members, graduate members who have a belief that, if you want to go through what i went through, i have a greater appreciation of you as a member. so if you don't go through it, then i don't regard you in the same way. so that kind of peer pressure is applied. i still have people writing on my facebook and twitter page saying if you're a paper member of the fraternity if you didn't go through that test that i went through. what is needed is obviously for peers. you can have all of the rules in place, but what you have to have is peers saying i cannot allow
this because you're not going to tarnish our reputation and put us in jeopardy by your actions. that's the most important aspect of this. >> professor, do you believe hazing is worse in african-american colleges and fraternities than it is in nonpredominantly african-american ones? >> yes. that's what i was about to say. with all due respect, i'm not saying that hazing does not exist in other organizations. but the physical brand of hazing that we encounter, i've been researching this for over 20 years at this point, i attended the u.s. naval academy before i went to moorehouse. i went through the experience. what you're seeing, yes, do you have hazing in white groups. you find a lot of alcohol abuse and pranks going on in those groups. there are no student registered student organizations at hbcus or predominantly white schools where we -- with the frequency that we see with this find the levels of physical abuse in black letter organizations and in hbcus. we just don't find it. >> wait. hold it. professor, are you saying that the -- for the bands at a school like florida a & m, that that
behavior is sort of migrated from or been learned from the fraternity and the band is mirroring that fraternity? >> yes. because at hbcus, if you go to any college campus around this country, the most popular people are usually the athletes and the fraternity members. the greeks. if you go to hbcus, you have a third element there. you have athletes at a much lower level than the pwis. you have greeks and you have band members. people don't go to hbcu games to see the football game. they go to see the bands. and let me be clear. i'm not saying this happens at all hbcus and all hbcu bands. it is predominant at hbcus where the bands are a desirable commodity. the famu, southerns, jackson states of the world. and this is why, you know, i work with frank before on that story on hbo last year. there was a blowback from the community accusing people at hbo are prejudiced and myself being misinformed. now we have somebody dead. i said then, it not a question of if, it's a question of when
someone will be injured or killed. and this is what we're dealing with. >> for our viewers, hsbu is historically black colleges and universities. >> for me, this is not a debate and a hbcu institution. in 2002 cavalry members beat six students with ax handles and used horse manure and water on students who misbehave. you know what? texas a&m, predominantly white institution. my point is regardless of whether you're predominantly white institution or hbcu, what is required to confront hazing, you clearly have to have state laws where people understand you can go to jail if you're engaging in this behavior. secondly and most importantly, you have to have individuals who say we're not going to allow this culture to go forward. when i pledged in spring of 1989, i made it clear to my
brothers, i'm not getting beat by somebody. it's not going to happen. but here's what was interesting. when i went to the national convention that summer and we talked about hazing, i had brothers in the chapter who said hey, man, don't tell anybody you didn't get hazed or you didn't get any wood, which means paddling, because it may not come out right. i said wait a minute, if we pledged me in the right way, why should we not say it? that is a culture. you have to have people in bands, fraternities and sororities looking at somebody else and say you may be my brother or sister or band member, but you're not going to do that. you're not going to jeopardize us by your actions. that's what's required. we need young people coming in the bands saying i'm not taking a beating simply because i want to play an instrument. this is also trickling down to high school level. how i do know? because i went through this in 1984 with some folks said you have to get beat because you're in the band. i said no i'm not. it's not going to happen. >> professor? >> i've gone through this stuff, again with all due respect, none of that has worked. none of that has worked. not policy changes. not this approach to individual psychology. the point is these students want to belong.
this is a culture, i agree we're fundamentally disagreeing, but the culture is so deeply entrenched that there is no way to dismantle it. so this is an argument that i'm making. not many people are making this argument. i'm simply saying that no policy, no laws, remember, hazing is a felony in the state of florida. i have some fraternity brothers at this very same school go to jail a few years ago because of hazing. it cannot be stopped. so the next question is when are university officials and legal officials going to take steps to disband these organizations across the board? >> in our society right now -- >> there is no other option. >> follow me here, in our society, burglaries homicides take place. we have deterrents as a part of that. some say death penalty, life imprisonment. the reality is when you have individuals, we can talk about police brutality where people protect their own on police forces. we have a natural way of life in our country where we protect institutions. people are afraid to be a whistle-blower or being ostracized by the people in the corporation.
what i'm saying you is got to have procedures in place. you might not say i can't end it all, but can you at least stop a lot of it if you take a hard line to it. >> professor? you have to disband the organizations. >> exactly. they have taken hard lines since policy changes in 1990 in a different school with hbcu bands. it simply has not worked. so what -- >> do you disband police forces? to get rid of police brutality? no. >> that is apples and oranges. i'm saying we cannot let emotion get in the way of the facts and the facts are that nobody's been able to stop this to date and so if we want to save black lives in these organizations and other lives, period, we get rid of these organizations. this is a particularly black problem. >> no, it's not. i absolutely disagree. >> not on this level. >> i went to predominantly white schools, i know. >> i went to both. >> i appreciate both of your perspectives. i want to continue this conversation. we'll have you on both again.
professor, thank you. really interesting points. roland martin as well. let us know what you think. we're on facebook, google plus, add us to your circles. follow me on twitter. @andersoncooper. let's talk about it on twitter. there is breaking news about paycheck coming up and which one is the kettle and which one is the pot? multimillionaire mitt romney launches an attack on newt gingrich's wealth. how is that working for him? we have raw politics on that. later a new twist in a bizarre case of a serial killer's rampage discovered by accident. john walsh from "america's most wanted" joins us. my doctor told me calcium is best absorbed in small continuous amounts.
raw politics now. we reported last night newt gingrich claimed the clear front-runner status of republican nomination, has caused a tactical shift for the romney campaign. so now all out attacking him. hours ago in an interview on cbs evening news, mr. romney tried out what some might call risky material. listen. >> he's a wealthy man. a very wealthy man. if you have a half a million dollar purchase from tiffany's, you're not a middle class american. >> keep in mine that criticism is coming from a man's who net worth is $190 million and $250 million. a man who challenges rick perry to a $10,000 bet. >> rick, i'll tell you what. 10,000 bucks? $10,000 bet? >> i'm not in the betting business. >> okay. >> attacking gingrich on his wealth isn't the only thing he said to cbs. watch. >> newt gingrich has been an
unreliable leader in the conservative movement. this is a person who has a very questionable record when it comes to leading conservative principles. >> this from a man who has been painted as a flip-flopper who has gone on record as not being the most conservative of candidates. >> i think people recognize that i'm not a partisan republican, that i'm someone who is moderate and that my views are progressive. >> that was back in 2002. contradictory statements from mitt romney back then. we mentioned, it's new material, new lines of attack for mr. romney. the question is, does he open himself up by taking this new tact? joining me is gloria borger and senior political analyst david gergen. david, what do you make of this new line of attack? >> he should throw out that material. fine something new. listen, he has every reason to be frustrated. mitt romney looked like the inevitable nominee. here comes newt gingrich out of nowhere and seized the lead from him and mitt romney faded some. i understand the frustration.
i applaud him for asking ann romney to be on the stump. she's a terrific asset for him. get his sons out there. this is beneath him and also, it just -- he just played right into inviting you to go replay that $10,000 bet sequel. he could have put that story away. that could have been last week's news. instead, you know, he chooses to attack gingrich's wealth? come on. romney is about 30 times -- at least 30 times more wealth than gingrich. it seems to be an odd line of attack. i think he ought to throw it away. find something else. there are other ways to go after newt gingrich. and by the way, today in the "new york times," he sat down with "the new york times" today, he called gingrich zany. >> zany. >> that's very unusual. >> gloria, what do you make of it? would romney brought the tiffany's thing had he not made this $10,000 blunder bet? >> i think raising it today was ridiculous. i think his campaign is clearly trying to change their attack line on newt gingrich.
because they started out by calling him a career politician. that didn't work very well when gingrich pointed out that romney himself would have been a career politician if he would have won all the races he competed in. so that didn't work. they're really trying, i think, to focus mitt romney on talking about newt gingrich's temperament and his dependability and his lack of discipline, which is an on going narrative about newt gingrich. i would argue that would be a little bit more lucrative for them than talking about the issue of consistency because romney is known as a flip-flopper and also money, which of course is ridiculous for him to raise about gingrich. >> david, for mitt romney to be attacking him as an unreliable conservative that opens him up to all sorts of things. >> absolutely. every time you go after somebody on an issue that you're vulnerable yourself on, it basically invites the media to replay all of the ways in which you're weak or you've been a
flip-flopper or whatever it is. you know, they have an argument that many -- there's a reason why mitt romney does better against barack obama than newt gingrich does and there is a perception that newt gingrich is, you know, has an uneven temperament, doesn't have the temperament for the job. that is an area worth exploring. >> right. >> i would leave out all of the personal stuff. it's just asking -- raises the question, you want a man of this temperament in the oval office, a man who will be the difference between war and peace. that's a legitimate question. >> he did do that today in that same "new york times" interview where he called newt gingrich zany. he also questioned and said, look this is about leadership and a leader needs to be someone -- here's the quote, sobriety, stability, patience, an temperance. those are words that campaign would like him to use. >> right. >> gloria exactly right. when he said it, i thought the other night when mitt romney said, i'm not a bomb throw,
that's a well-placed line. that is a legitimate argument. newt has his own arguments to respond to that. he's trying to convince people that i'm a much more mature person than i was in the 1990s. >> but i guess unless you confront gingrich, how do you get him to, you know, i mean is romney thinking unless you kind of get into a fisticuff with him, how do you get him to be zany? do you say he's got a temper or he's a bomb thrower without him throwing any? is that effective? >> exactly. in fact, today at a press availability, newt gingrich essentially said he felt that he was being baited. and i think he has a point there, which is that newt gingrich has been kind of smooth and he's vowed a positive campaign and all the rest. he's not responding to these things. and so he says i feel like people are baiting me because they want newt gingrich to behave as the old newt gingrich.
>> yeah. let me come back to this, anderson. listen if you're in this situation, i think what voters look for in the republican base is a fellow that can take the fight to obama, not take the fight to gingrich. so what you would normally do is if you're a candidate, go after the president and be presidential. but then you would assemble maybe 15 or 20 people that work with newt gingrich in the '90s, put them on the same flat form together, have a press conference with those people and that will play on television for three days. >> we'll leave it there. david and gloria, getting interesting. next, breaking news from capitol hill. democrats backing down big time in the battle over how to extend pay for extending the -- excuse me, how to pay for extending the payroll tax cut. plus a year and a half since she disappeared, police may have found this woman. shannon gilbert. details ahead. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 let's talk about the personal attention
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breaking news tonight. you'll be seeing it in your paycheck. as you know, democrats and republicans have been battling over extending the payroll tax cut which means $1,000 dollars or more for working families. they've been divided on how to pay for it, though. democrats pushing for a surtax. pushing that is until this moment. kate baldwin is at capitol hill with the latest. kate, what's going on? democrats dropped insistence on this millionaires surtax? >> reporter: this is a major concession on the part of democrats that came this
afternoon after a meeting at the white house with senate democratic leaders. this millionaire surtax is a provision, is a kind of an issue, that democrats as well as the president have been insisting on all along. this is a surtax on income over $1 million. this is what democrats said they wanted as part of any end deal to extend the payroll tax cut in order to pay for it. as republicans are insisting that the tax cut extension be paid for. so this is a major development on the part of democrats who, because i'll tell you, anderson, for the past week, there has been very little negotiating, if at all. and both sides seem to be retreating more to the corners than actually trying to reach a compromise. so while this is one step forward, it's hard to say that this is, you know, we can see the end game or the kind of end zone, if you will, because it still leaves many steps to go to try to reach a negotiation in this long, drawnout battle to try to extend this payroll tax
extension before it expires at the end of the year. late this evening was the first time that the leaders, house speaker john boehner, republican leader in the senate mitch mcconnell, and the senate majority leader harry reid the first time they sat down together to start talking about the year-end issues. it was described as a gut check. that in and of itself should be significant. it should not be significant that these leaders are sitting down but they have not been talking at all. and they are finally getting to that point at least this evening. >> and what does this mean for the possibility of a government shutdown down the road? >> reporter: this whole government shutdown thing was not part of this fight having to do with the payroll tax extension until this week. and that has now -- this massive funding bill that they've been working on for months is wrapped into this payroll tax fight. the government, if they don't come to an agreement, is running out of funding on friday. i think it's kind of part of this overall negotiation at this point, and probably the same goes for the government shutdown as it goes for the payroll tax cut extension.
it seems that they are at least talking now which is better than not talking up here on capitol hill. but we're not out of the woods yet. there are issues that they obviously need to overcome. and, of course, they all have the eye on the clock themselves. and, of course, they all want to leave for their own holiday break but that doesn't mean we won't be working through this weekend or next week. if we can say there's some good, they're talking. >> have to get that holiday break in. >> reporter: you know it. >> kate baldwin, appreciate it. looking at the other stories, a lot of holiday breaks this year. susan hendricks joins us with a 360 news bulletin. >> i they they have, thank you. president obama welcoming home returning troops from iraq at ft. bragg today. take a listen. >> so as your commander in chief, and on behalf of a grateful nation, i'm proud to finally say that these two words and i know your families agree -- welcome home. welcome home. welcome home.
>> well said. the president also paid tribute to more than 4,000 troops who died in the iraq war. lawyers for an idaho man accused of shooting at the white house last month say their client is able to assist in his defense and is mentally competent to stand trial. we're talking about this man, 21 oscar ortega hernandez. he was charged with attempted assassination of president obama. how about this? stocks took a dive on wall street. the dow down 131 points. the s&p fell 14. finally, the number of married couples in the u.s. is at a record low. according to the latest figures, from the pew research center, 51% of american adults are married. that is a 5% drop from the previous year, anderson. back to you. >> thank you very much. appreciate it. time for the shot. kids are getting excited about christmas. i think for awhile now. and in their gleeful anticipation, jimmy kimmel saw an opportunity. he gave parents a youtube challenge. let your kids open a present early, film reaction. the catch was it had to be a
really terrible present. here are some of the results from "jimmy kimmel live." >> what did you get? >> i don't like this. >> what is it? an old banana. >> an old banana. isn't that exciting? >> what is that? >> i got a girl activity book of stickers! i'm not a girl! >> i'm not a boy! >> i'm not a boy either. >> this is the worst present ever. >> that's so sad. gosh. there's a lot more happening around the country, the world, the serious stuff ahead. still to come, growing cries from the international community. the unrest in syria threatens to spill out into an all-out civil war. and next, how police solved the case of shannon gilbert. she disappeared and how her disappearance led to the discovery of a possible serial killer. we'll be right back. for a limited time, passages malibu
crime and punishment. one year after long island police found the first what would become ten sets of human remains stretched along miles of the long island coast, the woman whose disappearance first prompted the search may have been found. her name is shannon gilbert. she worked as a sex worker. she advertised her services on craigslist. she vanished may 2010. despite months of searching, her case went cold. then a week ago police found some of her belongings, a purse, cell phone and jeans and sneakers. in the last 24 hours, what's believed to be her body was found a quarter mile away near where she was last seen alive and just miles from where the other bodies were found. now a medical examiner is going to determine if the remains are in fact gilbert's. police are saying they don't think her death is linked to the others and may not even be a murder. it's a mystery that stumped
investigators and it all began with this woman, shannon gilbert, who was 24 when she disappeared 19 monthing ago. her disappearance triggered massive searches along a stretch of remote beaches on long island and turned up the remains of ten bodies in the process. the discoveries were shocking. eight women, one toddler believed to be the daughter of victim, and a man wearing women's clothing. all of them dumped in a marshy area leading police to believe a serial killer or several killers were to blame. despite the discoveries and months of searching, there was no sign of gilbert until a crack in the case. >> discovered items which included the pocketbook with identification in the pocketbook belonging to shannon gilbert. we believe that this is her pocketbook. >> she advertised sex services on the internet and the night she disappeared, police believe she was with a client even though her belongings in this latest set of remains were found near the other ten bodies, police do not believe her case is related. in fact, they believe gilbert
may have gotten lost in the swamp, and drowned. >> she traveled at least a half mile, three quarters of a mile on foot through that muck, mud, thick area. and it would be very easy to get exhausted and fall down and not be able to move any further. >> as for the other victims, police now believe one person is to blame and that killer targeted prostitutes. many of the victims advertised sex services on internet. beyond that, there is little known about who is responsible for a string of deaths on this remote stretch of beach. some people expressed disbelief at the police theory that shannon gilbert died accidentally. earlier i spoke with john walsh. walsh's son was kidnapped and murdered in 1981. he talked about how gilbert's family might be feeling right now. so the remains have not been identified as shannon gilbert. although authorities seem confident. you have to feel for her family. every time remains were found they thought finally they would know what happened to her only
to be told later on the body, you know, it wasn't found. >> you're absolutely right, anderson. in all the years that i've been doing this, i've met thousands of parents of missing children, missing adults, missing young women. and they all say the same thing, the not knowing is the worst. you can almost deal with it and start to get your life in order again if you know where your child's remains are if they're dead. if they're dead you want to take that child or that adult somewhere and bury them. the not knowing is killing them. >> police say they don't believe that shannon gilbert was killed by the serial killer, instead she fell into a marsh and drowned. what do you think happened? >> very, very hard to say until they find her remains. you know, there is a serial killer on the loose. there are ten bodies and suffolk county police and working long and hard. my heart goes out to this family. i have to say to shannon's parents, you can't give up looking, no matter what the assumptions are. the one way to keep your child's
story in the news and to put, you know, to put that loved one's case in the forefront, it's up to the parents. it's up to the parents to keep the story alive. >> she was last seen fleeing from the home of joseph brewer who i guess she arranged a sexual encounter with. police say that brewer is not a suspect. >> no, he's not a suspect in the long island serial killer case of those ten bodies. but she may have fallen in that marsh or she may have run into somebody else or this guy might have been nearby, this predator whoever murdered these other people, and it may have been worst day of her life. i know in my son's case when adam was ordered out of that store in sears in florida 30 years ago, no one could even conceive or know that there was a roaming serial killer predator that happened to be there that day looking for a child. and when adam was ordered out of the store by a security guard when he was observing some other people in a fight, it was the perfect timing for this predator.
so anything could have happened to this woman. but the not knowing is the wofr -- worst for these parents. >> some of the families of the victims criticized the investigation saying that, look, it's been a year since the bodies have been found. the police still don't have a suspect. do you think that's a valid criticism? >> as the parent of a murdered child, you know, you always want answers. you want, you need answers. you need answers to go on. you are looking for justice. now i've worked with the suffolk county police before. i've done lots of cases with them. and we're considering doing the long island serial killer on "america's most wanted." i think they're stumped. i think they're being very honest with the parents. it's a very unusual case, anderson. you have ten bodies. one of those bodies is a child. one of those bodies is a man. now you've got to wonder, is this guy meeting women on craigslist or meeting part-time women involved in prostitution or drugs and somehow a man got involved or a man saw him dumping a body? i'm in los angeles where we help solve the grim sleeper serial
killer story. there were eight bodies of women and one body of a man in the grim serial killer sleeper. this was a serial killer who killed women over 20 years. and was identified by fa meal -- familial dna. that man's body was someone who witnessed him dumping one of the girls. he cold bloodedly killed that witness. so the long island serial killer is an intriguing case. i always held out that it was one man, that it was one guy who was familiar with the area, probably still lives nearby there somewhere within a two-hour radius, felt comfortable to dump the bodies there. so now police said they think it's one guy, not multiple guys. and now we're going to take a look at that case. i think they're stumped. i think they're at the end of the road. the parents want answers. they need to know. the public needs to know and people are afraid. >> john walsh, thanks. appreciate it. still ahead, new violence in syria. dozens more killed. plus, a decision about criminal charges and that nationally
televised college basketball fight over the weekend. and later, birthers try to make a statement in the sky over the football said and touchdown on the ridiculist. not anymore. ink, the small business card from chase introduces jot an on-the-go expense app made exclusively for ink customers. custom categorize your expenses anywhere. save time and get back to what you love. the latest innovation. only for ink customers. learn more at chase.com/ink
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but activists report that military and security forces are storming cities with tanks and heavy machine gunfire. prosecutors in ohio say they are not filing any charges in the brawl, take a look, at a college basketball game over the weekend. one prosecutor says after talking to coaches from xavier and the university of cincinnati, he thinks the teams internally can deal with what happened better than the criminal justice system. today, a judge said lindsay lohan is doing well complying with her probation. she was given more freedom to travel since she is doing her court-appointed work at morgue and going to therapy as well. her next hearing is in january. we're talking entertainment now. screen actors guild awards revealed the nominees "the help" cleaned up with four nom ma-- nominations. ensemble, up against "the artist," "the descendants" "bradss mads" and "midnight paris." now our 360 winners, republican
presidential candidates newt gingrich and jon huntsman in new hampshire. our staff winner tone is ella. love this one. her caption, awkward moment when both candidates choose paper. cue the sound effects. mike from niagara fall, right out of the gate, huntsman appears to have the upper hand. your 360 t-shirts are on the way. back to anderson. thanks, susan. coming up, a birther website sends a banner over a football stadium. there was just one small glitch. landed on the ridiculist. ♪ i'm burning out this useless telephone ♪ ♪ my hair is gone ♪ cheap cologne ♪ motor home ♪ i'm the rocket man! [ both ] ♪ rocket man ♪ burning out his fuse up here alone ♪ burning out his fuse up here alone? ahh.
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time for the ridiculist. and tonight we're adding what we're calling the banner to nowhere. believe it or not, the birther movement which questions the authenticity of president obama's birth certificate, that movement is still alive and kicking. that's right. it isn't just that second cousin you try to avoid at thanksgiving who tries to bring this thing up. a campaign remains intact which tries to convince people that the birth certificate the president released in april to quiet the, quote, sideshows and carnival barkers isn't real. the website worldnetdaily is still barking loud and clear and now it's taking a side show on the road and trying to hit
americans right where they live, at football games. on sunday, banner flew over the cowboys giants game in arlington, texas. the banner read, "where's the real birth certificate"? wnd.com. that banner flew over a stadium where 96,000 fans gathered to watch the game. there is the stadium. there is one small problem with this otherwise brilliant plan, as you can clearly see, the retractable roof at cowboys stadium was closed. so no one inside actually saw the banner. look, up in the sky, it's a bird, it's a plane -- sorry, my bad, just a roof. oops. but never let the facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory, world net daily had this headline on its site. quote, nfl fans wonder where obama's real birth certificate is. nationally televises football game features surprise for obama. see world net daily's all about the spin. i go so far as to say world net daily has more spin than a club deejay reading a spin magazine while sitting on a washing machine. the site says the banner let everyone within eye shot know -- and the deejay just got back from a spin class, just thought of that one --
the site says the banner led everyone within eye shot know there are serious questions about the president's, quote, purported record of birth. i don't know. it looks to me like they say everyone in eye shot, that may have been a few passed out tailgaing stragglers. in a mostly empty stadium parking lot. this isn't the first time that they have gone to great lengths at great costs to do something no one really noticed. in september, they also flew a banner over tampa bay, florida, where the cnn debate was happening. it cost thousands of dollars to fly the plane and hire a helicopter to fly near it to take pictures and video. he says the website pays for it with help from contributions. so as a public service in case you want to be involved in supporting this high flying effort in futility, maybe hop on over to world net daily super store and buy a where's the real birth certificate yard signs? sure to make a real impression to your neighbors now available at a discount price of only $17.95. don't forget to keep an eye out for more messages in the sky. i must worn you the truth may say pretty formidable roof even